Thursday, March 17, 2011

Why Women Who Want Kids Should Not go to Law School

This is a blog about my life – my thoughts, happenings in our family, cute shots of my toddler, etc. I have no idea why I’m going to spout off career advice, especially when pretty much no one who reads this blog is deciding whether or not to attend law school.

I guess I want young impressionable women about to get sucked into the law school trap to learn from my mistakes.

My first two weeks of law school, three if you include orientation, were awful. Awful not in the sense that I wasn’t enjoying myself, but awful in the sense that, because of unfortunate dating choices, I was not applying myself. I found myself in the career services office before the drop deadline, asking if it wouldn’t be a good move to defer my legal education for a year. Without realizing it, I had gotten far behind my classmates and I knew I wasn’t likely to do particularly well given my late start.

“Do you want to work for a law firm in a large city?” the counselor asked. “If you do, you need to be in the top ten percent. Otherwise, your grades don’t really matter. You’ll get a job no matter what.”

Awesome, I thought. I can focus on pre-marital counseling and working things out with my boyfriend. I’ll just sort of get through law school.

And I absolutely loved law school. I loved the class discussions, I loved my professors, I loved the friends I made (I still love you guys!), and I even loved the reading assignments when I did them. I didn’t worry too much about test-taking skills and how to get on law review. Why would I, when I could get a job no matter my grades? When I really liked the subject I did very well, but usually my grades were a respectable average. I constantly heard people complain about how much they hated law school, and I pitied them for their misplaced ambition. Didn’t they know that we were all going to get jobs?

And then the financial crisis hit, and even lawyers with stellar credentials were laid off in droves. I also got married (to another guy – it’s a long story) and, a year later, got pregnant.

I made the choice to go to law school in a world where I was single and able to work a full-time job anywhere in the country, and in an economy that had jobs just waiting for BYU Law graduates to snatch them up. And now, I find myself looking for part-time work in the same city my husband needs to be in for his schooling, in an economy suffering from an overabundance of lawyers. Oh, and I’m tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

I thought part-time work would be pretty easy to find. Part-timers don’t require benefits and can help attorneys out with a lot of tasks that paralegals can’t. I was totally wrong. When law firms hire attorneys fresh out of law school, they have to train them. It’s not worth it to law firms to hire part-time attorneys with no previous experience because it takes much longer for part-timers to get the hang of things and start being valuable to the firm. Also, when a firm does decide to get some part-time help, guess who they hire? Not the people in the bottom half of the class with no previous experience. Not in this economy, anyway.

So, if a woman who wants kids does decide to go to law school, she better get the best grades possible. I’ve heard men complain about women who do well in law school because they’re taking a good spot away from a man who needs a good job to support a family. Ignoring the general ridiculousness of the statement for a moment, I want to point out that it’s just wrong. In a household that follows traditional gender roles, everyone sacrifices for the husband to get a job. The family relocates, the wife looks after the kids so the husband can job hunt or start a practice, etc. My husband is not going quit law school so that I can brush up on my legal skills to make myself more employable. That scenario would require us to give up money for the chance to make much less money.

And by the way, when we relocate, guess who has to take another bar exam in order to have a chance at getting a job? My husband won’t have to because of reciprocity between states, which only applies to full-time attorneys. The legal profession isn’t very kind to wives and mothers.

In order to avoid wasting the money spent on the wife’s education, she needs to make her resume the best she possibly can so that employers want to train her, even for part-time work. She needs to do way better in school than most of those future breadwinners.

So here’s what it takes to do well in law school. Not that I know from personal experience, but I have seen my husband, a current 2L, do well. To get great grades, you should work 12 hour days 6 days a week. Twelve is a minimum, at least for the first year. You can’t just spend this time studying for classes, though that should take a big chunk of your 12 hour day. You also need to spend time figuring out how to do well in law school. It’s a skill, and it takes time to learn. People who do well in law school figure out who did well in classes before them and ask them how to take tests.

Oh, and 12 hour days does not mean just spending 12 hours at the law school, chatting with friends or watching Hulu. It means really working for 12 hours. And you need to do this for months without a break. This, by the way, is extremely difficult.

Some people don’t need to study for 12 hours a day. But those people are really special, and most people are not that kind of special. Twelve hours is pretty much a guarantee of good grades. Of course, if you go to Harvard, 12 hour days are not necessary. 

So unless you are a male, or you are a female who is willing and able to spend 12 hours a day studying for tests, or you have a large trust fund, or you're going to Harvard or Stanford or Yale, I don’t recommend law school.

Of course, some women work full-time. Or they think they don’t want to have kids. But most women, no matter how undesirable childbearing might sound when they begin law school, eventually want to have kids. And that usually leads to wanting to spend time at home with them, particularly if the husband has a full-time job. So don’t count on always being able to pick up and get whatever full-time job comes your way.

Another option is to delay childbearing until you are settled in your career. This is a good option, if you can delay childbearing, because if you already know what you’re doing, employers will want you. But who wants to stave off the baby hungriness for a few years while you wait to get settled in your career? Why do that when you could just take care of your career by kicking butt in law school?

I really like my life as a stay-at-home mom. And I don’t know that I can say that I regret going to law school, because it changed the way I think about life in invaluable ways. I’m also very lucky to be married to an amazing person who is willing to pay off my student loans. At the same time, I wish I could work a couple of days a week to earn some money, have a break from my wonderful daughter, and improve my legal skills. I keep applying, and one of these days I think an employer will recognize how awesome I am and hire me. But I don’t want others to make the same mistakes I did, so I’m trying to at least give them fair warning. 

11 comments:

Unknown March 17, 2011 at 10:05 AM  

First, I officially met your husband yesterday. Now I won't feel so weird running up to you to introduce myself the next time I catch you on campus. Second, it's clearly too late for me to heed this warning. Two years in and thousands in debt. However, if I can't learn at least I can sympathize. You're not alone. I'm not even finished with law school and I'm already having a melt-down about the "family-friendly" lies I was given about law school. We should chat sometime off-blog. I'm always curious how women went about making the decisions they did their 2L and 3L years, mostly because I'm in the middle of trying to make those decisions myself and it's nice to feel some solidarity. =)

gurrbonzo March 17, 2011 at 12:40 PM  

Oh, friend. SO MUCH TO SAY. I appreciate your candor but have to point out, nothing you said here is limited to women or women who want kids. This is a dumb time to go to law school, period, male or female, kids or no kids, married or not married, part-time or full-time, you name it. The market just can't bear one more lawyer. I could point to nationwide statistics or I could also point to dozens of our unemployed classmates, some who are SAHMs but also some, including men, who have been actively searching for full-time jobs SINCE 2009 without success. And it's a fact of life (and math) that, 12 hour days or not, in every law school class there will be 100+ people who aren't in the top ten percent.

Anyway, yeah, if anyone's thinking about law school right now, they are being a tad, let's say, optimistic, but I don't think the dumbness of that move is gender-related. (Since we started before the economy went down the crapper, I give us a pass.)

Anyway, despite all that Debbie Downerness, there are some good things. May I also remind you that you have been out of law school for LESS THAN 2 YEARS? As in, your career is going to be a lot longer than this period of time that kind of sucks job-wise. In a decade, when you WANT a real job, your hub's more current law connections will help get you one, and then you'll have like 30 years to practice your brains out and rock it and just be a big deal in general. No one cares about your grades! You won't be in small-town-oversaturated-with-lawyers forever and you won't be in law school mentality forever.

In sum, it's a big world and your whole career is still ahead of you and I, for one, am glad you went to law school. :)

Dorothy March 17, 2011 at 8:15 PM  

I sort of agree, Kathleen. Unless you got a full ride, it's a dumb idea to go to anything but a top tier law school. For anyone. But I still think that many challenges to getting a legal job are unique to women with children: inability to relocate, preference for part-time, and fewer resources to make themselves more marketable. I suppose it is possible for a man who has all these advantages (and who really works hard and intelligently) to not get a job, but I think that has got to be true with any profession. Some people just don't get lucky. Law school is the right choice for some people, like my husband, and the job market when he started was much worse than it is now.

And if you really put in 12 hour days and aren't in the top 10 or at least 20 percent after your first semester? Get out while you can!

Ru March 18, 2011 at 11:50 AM  

(Wow, I sure did type up a long comment only to lose it ... well done, Blogger.)

Anyway, sorry to blog stalk, but I saw the title of this post on Amy and Paul's blog and had to visit. I went to law school with Paul at the U, and I definitely symathize with the fact a lot of law school grads are still looking for legal work. But I just want to echo Kathleen and say we're still basically little baby lawyers - we don't know what awesome future opportunities could still present themselves because of a law degree.

I think it's good to caution people about law school not equalling a pot of gold these days, but it's not a man/woman/baby problem. I've had two jobs since graduation - the first was relatively family friendly, the second one was basically tailor-made for women who want to be lawyers and moms. (I'm so not exaggerating about that.) The first job wasn't for me for a lot of reasons, but the fact is, I would have no idea how great the second job could be until I was actually at the second job.

I guess what I'm saying is this - taking a new bar exam sucks, applying for jobs sucks, training sucks, rejection sucks ... but those things suck regardless of whether you have or want kids.

The economy will get better, like it always does, and then who knows what's going to happen from there?

Dorothy March 19, 2011 at 11:22 PM  

Brooke: Did Nathaniel tell you that I want to talk too? Because I do!

Ru, thanks for commenting! Even with the economy getting better, I'm still not convinced that there will be nearly enough part-time legal jobs for all the attorney moms who want them. Here is a study showing that more and more moms are wanting to work part-time: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/536/working-women
And here is a study showing how the badly the legal job market is: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/03/07/jobs-are-back-but-just-not-in-the-legal-industry/?mod=google_news_blog

I don't see the economic collapse as a temporary thing for the legal field. I think it permanently shrunk it.

Most moms want part-time, and even when the economy was going great there weren't a lot of options for those who don't do really well.

Sure, you can do lots of things to get a job, but when you're doing it on your family's time (and dime, most likely), the cost benefit analysis isn't the same for someone without kids.

Todd March 22, 2011 at 1:44 AM  

Along with 75% of the political science undergrads I thought I would go the law school route. In any given class I bet 3 out 4 would have raised their hand saying they wanted to go to law school. I was at a political/education conference and one of the directors was having us introduce ourselves and tell about our career goals. He gave some great advise. He said "don't go to law school if you don't want to be a lawyer". Now that may seem obvious but it wasn't to me because I enjoyed thinking, debating, and the ideas behind the rule of law. But I did not want to be a lawyer; I just wanted to learn. After reading your post my path is reaffirmed but you learned alot too. And I disagree with what you said about women and taking the top spots for men. We can argue about that later and you can use your mad lawyer skills to tell me why I am wrong.

ebv March 22, 2011 at 10:24 AM  

Dot!

Stumbled across this today. Thanks for posting.

I'll echo Ru and Kathleen. It's much too early in the game to fully judge your law school education. You never know when or where the critical thinking, argument, and writing skills you developed in law school will come into play. I understand that the price tag might not be what you or anyone would like, but let's talk in 30 years. I have a feeling you'll have had some very successful times with your law background.

I hope that doesn't come off as trite or flippant. It's not meant that way--more an optimistic view.

As for the CSO telling you that outside of BigLaw grades don't matter, that's an unforgivable sin. I could fill pages with what I think of our CSO, but this is not the place.

Kathleen is right in that this is simply a bad time to go to Law School. It's been a barf bag of a job hunt for many of our classmates. That said, however, I'll disagree with you about HYS being the only good ones or the only ones worth going to (without a full ride).

Going to BYU without any scholarship is pretty close to being on full scholarship anywhere else; your COL in NYC would cost you more than tuition at BYU, for example. But, and here's the kicker, a BYU JD offers the kind of flexibility you wouldn't be enjoying right now had you gone to almost any other law school. If you had the typical law school debt, the option of being a SAHM would not exist for you. It simply wouldn't. You would have to be working somewhere, probably full time. (Just ask my friends who went to some of the top schools, racked up 200k+ of debt, and are still looking desperately for jobs, living with their parents, or avoiding calls from creditors).

This is not to say that Nathaniel wouldn't eventually be able to support you or that children would be unthinkable--more that your monthly loan payments would not allow for you to stay at home full time and have your husband in school simultaneously.

As to firms not wanting to hire a brand-new part-time associate, I don't think that's a reflection on you at all. In fact, unless she clerked at the US Supreme Court, there's not many firms on this planet who will hire a part-time associate without having had her work full time at their firm previously, regardless of where she went to school or in what percentage she graduated. They simply want to know that someone is, like you mentioned, worth the firm's time and energy and valuable to the client.

I guess what I'm driving at is, the economy is still picking itself up after a nasty fall, it's too early to tell what you'll do outside of the awesome mothering job you've started, and while your debt load feels (and is) heavy, it could have been so much larger and so much more burdensome.

Finally, I'll keep my eyes peeled for part-time positions in Salt Lake and the surrounding area. Do you guys know where you're going to end up after Nathaniel's graduation? Are you open to non-associate jobs, ie, clerking, defender, city attorney, county attorney, etc.?

Wishing you guys all the best!

Eric

Annie and Berkeley March 26, 2011 at 6:58 AM  

Done. I will NEVER attend law school. I never would have anyway, but I enjoyed this post regardless.

Kristi March 29, 2011 at 8:54 AM  

Hi! I just stumbled across your blog. My husband has been accepted to BYU law school for this fall. It's been hard for me because we have three small children and a good job right now. It feels silly to quit a good job to nose dive into debt and potentially not be able to find a job. Do you think the outlook is any more promising for patent law? He is an electrical engineer now and looking to practice patent/IP law. Anyway he really feels like we should go, I kind of feel like we shouldn't and any insights would be greatly appreciated : )

Dorothy March 30, 2011 at 6:44 AM  

Eric - you are so nice! We're going to end up in DC, but we're not sure exactly when, so that does make things difficult. He might want to clerk here, so that gives us a little over two years before we'd go to DC. And yes, I am open to anything!

Dorothy September 8, 2012 at 6:29 PM  

So I don't know if anyone's still reading this but it has now been a little over three years since I wrote this and I still agree with everything I said. As for the argument that the degree will come in handy some day: this does make me feel better about having gone to law school, but isn't a good reason to go to law school. It cost me three years of my life and fifty thousand dollars. I never should have paid that much for something upfront unless the benefits were guaranteed.